'Kay; I won't take it personally. It is an enormous effort being lifted off of the ground by two people all on their lonesome, and that astolat and elynross have made room in this particular instance for dissenters to the OTW and AO3 to back out does back the OTW's* claim towards egalitarianism and transparency. My objection, before policy was clarified to me, was in people not being able to control where gift-fics wound up (which I could see an argument being made for, but it would depend on answering a lot of questions concerning recs, the value of feedback by those other than author, and outside archiving after the reveal that don't appear relevant to the discussion as it's shaping up) that seem to be handled (elynross's clarifying comment in the thread I linked comes on 12/9, and while I formed my opinion early in December 2009, I certainly hope that I did so before that; I've been made of reading comprehension FAIL before, but not to that extent). I mean, I hope that that deletion doesn't mean that you're done, period, and people are able to write a NYR or something similar to regain eligibility if Yuletide should move again, but I can't see that coming any more than the mods could have seen the move to AO3 coming when they first conceived of Yuletide in the first place.
Um, honestly, you've brought up something very interesting in the Yuletide-as-gift argument, but I haven't had a chance to think on it very deeply, and honestly all arguments that I can come up with off of the top of my head involve superheroes as thought experiments. Ah, astolat and elynross are undoubtedly very cool, do a lot of heavy lifting, and deserve their bottles of wine once all the dust settles again after NYE, but I wouldn't go that far just yet. :)
They are not entitled to have Yuletide stay the way it was, forever.
No, my original complaint basically centered around people having signed a contract to submit their stories to Yuletide that, years ago, didn't see the OTW as a gleam in anyone's eye, let alone the move to AO3, having a valid reason to say, "Ah, this is not the same dotted line that was in front of us before," when it looked as though they weren't going to be able to delete their stories at will having a reasonable complaint. "Yuletide is moving" is not the same thing as "Yuletide is moving onto servers controlled by a major fannish bone of contention" are not quite the same thing. If the Yuletide servers had had all they could handle**, then the mods gots to do what they gots to do, and once the dissenters are given a reasonable out it becomes a hell of a lot less of a normative issue.
*I know that OTW =/= Yuletide, I'm referring to Yuletide's being hosted on OTW's servers as a major political reason for some people to dissent. The dissenters' reasoning ought to be entirely irrelevant to Yuletide's response if they hadn't agreed to allow deletion from the archive in this instance, anyway.
**And again: if either mod had a rep in fandom as a liar, that would be one thing, but they don't, so I'm not going to assume that they would bite off their own feet by bringing forth this kind of wank-storm unless the archive seriously really did need to move even if I did have a hate-on for the OTW, and I really don't, and don't understand a lot of the arguments against its very existence. That sounds weirdly defensive, but there are a lot of "FOR US ARE AGAINST US!!!" arguments floating about over the past couple of years since the OTW got off of the ground that make me be like, "For you....? But not while signing away my right to object ever, because that's crazy-pants?"
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2010-01-04 12:10 am (UTC)Um, honestly, you've brought up something very interesting in the Yuletide-as-gift argument, but I haven't had a chance to think on it very deeply, and honestly all arguments that I can come up with off of the top of my head involve superheroes as thought experiments. Ah,
They are not entitled to have Yuletide stay the way it was, forever.
No, my original complaint basically centered around people having signed a contract to submit their stories to Yuletide that, years ago, didn't see the OTW as a gleam in anyone's eye, let alone the move to AO3, having a valid reason to say, "Ah, this is not the same dotted line that was in front of us before," when it looked as though they weren't going to be able to delete their stories at will having a reasonable complaint. "Yuletide is moving" is not the same thing as "Yuletide is moving onto servers controlled by a major fannish bone of contention" are not quite the same thing. If the Yuletide servers had had all they could handle**, then the mods gots to do what they gots to do, and once the dissenters are given a reasonable out it becomes a hell of a lot less of a normative issue.
*I know that OTW =/= Yuletide, I'm referring to Yuletide's being hosted on OTW's servers as a major political reason for some people to dissent. The dissenters' reasoning ought to be entirely irrelevant to Yuletide's response if they hadn't agreed to allow deletion from the archive in this instance, anyway.
**And again: if either mod had a rep in fandom as a liar, that would be one thing, but they don't, so I'm not going to assume that they would bite off their own feet by bringing forth this kind of wank-storm unless the archive seriously really did need to move even if I did have a hate-on for the OTW, and I really don't, and don't understand a lot of the arguments against its very existence. That sounds weirdly defensive, but there are a lot of "FOR US ARE AGAINST US!!!" arguments floating about over the past couple of years since the OTW got off of the ground that make me be like, "For you....? But not while signing away my right to object ever, because that's crazy-pants?"