Gene do you like me Y/N?

[tzikeh]

A poll based on various and sundry conversations I've had (on TWOP, lifein1973, lj, telephone, etc.) in the past two weeks.

[Poll #941226]

Comment away if none of these cover your full response. Polls can only do so much, and the same can be said for my poor, midterm-wiped, caffeine-deprived brain.

Comments

[cereta.livejournal.com]

Gene walks that fine line for me between "not really all that physically appealing to me WHOA DAMN where did that come from?" If that makes sense.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

If that makes sense.

It completely does. I think a lot of "character" actors walk that line, and a good deal of it has to do with raw charismatic power at their centers. Frank McPike, Artemus Gordon, etc. - depending upon what they're doing, saying, reacting to, their body language, etc., it can just hit like a ton of bricks. If a show or play or movie is lucky enough to get a leading man-type who *also* has that center of raw charismatic power, the audience is doomed. In the good way.

Part of the motivation for this post came out of discussions with the Delightful and Delectable D. on the phone, part from IM chats with tjonesy, part from random posts in the lifein1973 community, and the final kick in the butt to post came from responding to hafital's post this morning.

Or maybe I'm just having PMS. ;)

[nestra.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I'm in that space too. "Not necessarily my type HELLO NURSE!"

[nomadicwriter]

I would have to third this. Charisma makes people magically good-looking. It's strange.

And I love the chemistry between Gene and Sam but, being me, want there to be more genfic, dammit! As in many fandoms, I read the slash not so much because I slash them but because woe, there is not nearly enough gen.

...Ordinarily I might have more to say, but coincidentally enough, Life on Mars is on TV right now.

[barkley.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen any of S2 yet. However, to clarify, the physically unattractive to me, is not a deterrent to my slash as he does fit VERY nicely into the alpha male slot that I require in the other guy. I am just not fanficish about it.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

First of all LOL at your icon for clarification. Brilliant.

And yes, oftentimes a character being personally physically unattractive does not deter the slash. Thank you for saying that - I know it, but I often forget that others don't just assume it. ;)

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I wish you had said "unattractive" rather than "physically unattractive" for Gene, because that's the thing. I don't have strong feelings about his looks either way, so my ability to find him hot is based on his personality. Which, yes, he's multi-dimensional, but I still find his personality repulsive. (: Sorry. I do see the slash, but I just don't want to go there.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Ha, GMTA. I didn't read this before I commented, but me, too.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

But you said it better!

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

For the second question, I would actually say that the actor who plays Gene is physically attractive to me, in a sexy-ugly way, but the character is too bigoted and sexist and out of touch with his emotions for me to find Gene himself very attractive. I do think he's complex, he's just a brand of complex that turns me off. *g*

I haven't managed to see S2 yet, but

[pocketmouse]

I am of the opinion that everyone thinks Sam's a flaming nancy, but they don't care, or talk about it behind his back.

Also, I labeled Gene as one-dimensional, because if Sam's in a coma, then Gene's the product of his imagination/a reflection of his psyche, which makes him not-three-dimensional, which is therefore closer to one. It may actually be two.

And if Gene is just in Sam's head, I don't want to get wrapped around the complications of being attracted to any of them. Except in a very abstract, meta sort of way.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

For the first one - I don't see the slashiness between Sam and Gene in the canon, but I'd be willing to, if that makes sense. A good enough writer can sell me on a pairing I don't see with no trouble at all; she's just got to come from a place of no pairing buy-in. (A pairing buy-in story, in my definition, is one where you have to see/believe in the pairing in order to go with the story; lots of stories in large fandoms/popular pairings are like this, because, well, other stories have done the groundwork. I have fandoms I'll read a pairing buy-in story in, like, dS (F/K) or SN (Danny/Casey) or SGA (McKay/Sheppard), but I have a lot more where I can't.)

My fear with LoM is - god, the show is so tightly written, with such an intense sense of place - and, let's face it, 1973 Manchester is not a place most fans have direct person experience with. It would be hard to write well.

But if someone can write a great Sam/Gene LoM story, or point me to one already written? (I haven't done any reading in the fandom, because I'm skeeeeeered. See "hard to write well," above.) I will be there. With bells on.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Then let me point you to Some Living After We Die. Set directly after Season 1, Episode 6.

Do let me know what you think. :)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

In a word: awesome. Even after I realized Dorinda wrote it - which, well, Dorinda - I was still doubtful. But she made it work, and she made me love it.

She is magic. Thank you so much for pointing me toward that story.

Also, I would so definitely read more Gene/Sam like this. In fact, you've made me crave it. I'm not saying you have an obligation here, precisely; I'm just pointing out that you are largely responsible, and that the decent thing to do would be to provide me with lots and lots of links. Otherwise, I could very well go into a decline. I'm sensitive that way.

*Doe Eyes of Intense Wistfulness*

*pining*

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

*Doe Eyes of Intense Wistfulness*

*pining*

Oh, dear. Hm. Well. Perhaps it was foolish of me to start you off with Dorinda's story, then.

*ponders*

Might I offer you a slice of pie? :D

Seriously, there's some other decent stuff out there; I don't know that it won't be somewhat of a letdown after Dorinda's, but lemme dig up a few links.

[dorsetgirl.livejournal.com]

Just found this thread while wandering. I would suggest you go to lifein1973 where there are loads of fics, many of very high standard. There are usually 2 or 3 new ones posted most days.

[loz]

This is possibly going to be seen as wanky, but, well, I'm willing to take that risk, because I want to know - how do you define good fan fiction? What are the elements which make it good for you?

Good fanfiction

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

That's a very good question, and doesn't seem wanky at all.

I think that "good fanfiction" is impossible to describe, because it means something different for everyone. And there is probably no piece of fanfiction out there (not even the hugely popular ones in any fandom) that satisfies each reader. Plenty of readers are fond of stories I don't like, and I'm sure there are stories I heartily enjoy which many other fans would read and wonder what was wrong with me.

The most important thing *for me* in fanfiction is that I buy, 100%, that the characters in the story are thinking, and speaking, and acting in ways that I believe, without hesitation, that the characters I see in the show would. I guess the shorter way to say that is "in character", but since everyone brings their own personalities, thoughts, desires, and opinions with them when they watch a show (we can't help it), "in character" can mean different things to different people. So "good fanfiction", for me, starts with a match of my vision of the show and characters, and the author's vision of the show and characters. When an author and I match up in that way, if the author is a decent writer, chances are I'll enjoy the story.

Is that a definition that makes sense? I'm sure there's lots more to it, but I think that's probably number one on the checklist for me, and everything that comes after would be secondary.

Re: Good fanfiction

[loz]

Thank you for your thoughtful answer. I think we mostly fall along the same criterion for our fan fiction reading/enjoying. I can say that something is good without necessarily enjoying it myself, but it's not good for me.

The concept of the characters is a very difficult thing, because as you said, we all come from different backgrounds with different life experiences and opinions influencing us. It's so easy to stereotype, but I do think that an American fan would write the characters differently from an English fan or an English/Australian fan. This doesn't mean that none of them can enjoy each other's work, just that it does widen the gap between understanding and feeling. Then again, there are all sorts of factors which go into it.

Re: Good fanfiction

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I can say that something is good without necessarily enjoying it myself, but it's not good for me.

Absolutely. And oftentimes readers are willing to say that they know a story they love isn't good, but they love it anyway because it gives them whatever they're looking for (hitting a button, preferred situation, etc.). I think part of the reason I'm so picky when it comes to fanfiction is that it's not enough for me if a story hits my buttons.

Currently, my favorite Life on Mars slash story is the one I linked above - Some Living After We Die. I recognize Sam and Gene in that story as 100% the Sam and Gene I see in the show. It's an extraordinarily difficult line to walk as an author, I think -- far more than it is to write fanfiction for other shows. Which is probably why I haven't come across fanfiction for Life on Mars that I've felt was at this level.

Now, that's not to say that I think LoM fanfiction has to be *that good* or nothing for me to enjoy it, but I have a much harder time buying into a story in this universe if it isn't really, really carefully crafted.

As for the nationality of the author -- if it is glaringly obvious that the author is not familiar with even the *basic* differences in vocabulary between their dialect of English and British English in 1973, that'll throw me out of a story pretty quickly. (I won't even address the intricacies of Mancunian because Lord, *I* sure don't know anything about it and wouldn't even try -- which I guess works in my favor because I'm less likely to spot that.)

I could talk about this til the cows come home, but at this point it's all theoretical. If you're interested, we could hook up on a chat program? My info page has all of my chat program names. But if you're tired of me yapping at you, that's okay too. :-D