Polanski - let me be crystal clear, just in case.

[tzikeh]

The guy is a rapist. He raped a 13-year-old girl after drugging her. That's right up there with the most heinous crimes committable. He is a despicable human being. He should be punished. The petition that's been signed by all of these directors et al saying he should be let go because he's an artist (or whatever) is despicable.

Anything you might have seen me arguing about otherwise online is me addressing 1) our legal system's massive failures; and 2) the misconceptions and misinformation about the details of the case. Clarifying the details of the case when people get them wrong is not the same as excusing the man for committing this crime.

I don't want anyone to think I believe what he did is in ANY WAY excusable, or that it's okay that he's escaped punishment since the plea. If I've given off that impression by talking about everything *else* surrounding this case, I hope this clears that up.

Comments

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

I can't believe this is even a controversy. WTF. He is a rapist.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

He is. There is NO QUESTION about that. But there is so much more *surrounding* it that it can't help but be a controversy. There is a significant amount of information beyond the "he is a rapist" part. It's so tempting and easy to say "and therefore end of story," but sometimes there's more.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

My comment wasn't meant as an argument... I was just sort of boggling at the general public reaction to this.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't get what's up with defending him. Being brilliant isn't an excuse for rape. Neither is having endured more tragedy than anyone deserves. That sucks, but it's not an excuse.

At the same time, I wonder why the effort is being put into pursuing this right now, given that:
-The victim doesn't want them to (and not because she's a scared kid, but because she doesn't want a media circus taking over her family's life -- I mean I gather this this is the case from what I've read)
-There don't seem to be other victims who need this case to make theirs (unless I've missed something?)
-He's been in exile for 30 years. It's not like he's been able to forget about it and totally carry on.

I haven't been following the details at all, but I get an uncomfortable feeling that someone wants a celebrity case to make their career (now that OJ, Robert Blake, and Phil Spector are done). There's just self-serving people all over the place aren't there?

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

Well, Polanski was never arrested again, but after he fled to France, he took up "grooming" 14-year-old Natassja Kinski, and when she turned 15, he quite openly started having a sexual relationship with her (15 was legal in France at the time). While Kinski has never publicly addressed her relationship with Polanski specifically, she has given interviews where she said that being a young teenager in the film world was very difficult, and she often felt exploited.

He's been in self-imposed exile for over 30 years, with tons of money and lots of professional successes, including an Oscar and a shitload of celebrity friends. A couple of years ago he had his lawyers approach US legal authorities re: cutting a deal on the grounds that he was an old man and there'd been alleged judicial misconduct. The judge who heard that case (who had no connection to the long-dead judge who'd heard the case originally) said they couldn't legally cut a deal while he was still a fugitive. If he returned to the jurisdiction voluntarily, they would be willing to subsequently hear any arguments his legal team wanted to make, and would take into account the fact that he'd turned himself in. He didn't go for it.

Apparently the victim said, BEFORE he was arrested in Switzerland, that she wishes it would just be over, because every time he has a new movie out or is nominated for another award or has another close brush with extradition, the media circus insists on tracking her down. However, AFTER he was arrested, she apparently said she wants the US government to extradite him, in hopes that one way or another it'll finally be over. His victim also said, when he was up for an Oscar for "The Pianist" that she didn't think his crime should have any bearing on whether or not he got the award. I think it's fair to say that his victim is a woman who has a lot of generosity of spirit. But the crime was committed against the state of California. That's why she would've been considered a witness to the crime, rather than a plaintiff.

Yeah, some prosecutor is probably hoping to make his career out of this one, but provided the prosecutor doesn't cut any legal corners when he pressents the case, I have absolutely no problem with that. If Polanski is allowed to go free, the message is that if you plead guilty to a crime, then don't like the sentence, it's okay to flee the jurisdiction rather than enter a not guilty plea and go to trial, or have your state of the art legal team file an appeal. He didn't even wait for the sentence to be handed down before he ran. And the message would be that it's okay to drug, rape and sodomise a crying 13-year old, so long as you:

a) successfully flee the jurisidiction
b) are a brilliant artist with lots of money and lots of well-connected friends
c) have a tragic past
d) manage to evade extradition for enough years that the authorities get tired of chasing you.

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

Thank you for putting all of this so rationally and concisely. Every time I try, my brain shorts out from the rage.

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

Actually, I screwed up on one issue of fact. Ironheadjane pointed out that Kinski was 18 when he cast her in "Tess" and started his relationship. I got that info from a commenter at a blog and foolishly didn't doublecheck the information before I repeated it. The rest of the stuff I wrote in the above post, however, I'm fairly sure of the facts, because I got that stuff from news articles.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

The more I read about this, the more horrified I am.

I think I am even more appalled by the people defending him on the basis that "it wasn't really rape" and/or "he's brilliant and had a hard life so it's okay."

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, he's a brilliant filmmaker AND he had a hard life AND he's a child rapist. The first two do not cancel out the last one, and a lot of people who love his work seem to be having a tough time understanding that. Besides, prisons the world over are filled with criminals who had hard lives / witnessed atrocities / were abused before they became abusers. But they didn't have tons of money and a Great Talent, so we send them to prison instead of rolling out the red carpet for them. Also, if having a hard life is such a good excuse, it's kind of impressive all the Holocaust survivors in this world who DIDN'T go on to rape children.

It seems to me that a lot of people are acutely uncomfortable by the idea that they've spent years enjoying the work of an unrepentant child rapist, or actually going to the same parties as an unrepentant child rapist. Rather than accept the fact that they've been spending time with someone who has a serious dark side, they'd prefer to believe the victim made the whole thing up. Then they can feel comfortable about still liking him.

[jennygadget.livejournal.com]

oh! do you have a link for her statements since the arrest? I have been arguing with people who say that we should let it go because that is what she wants. Aside from that not being the only issue (and certain peoples not making this argument in good faith anyway), it would be really nice to have that info to clarify her position.

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

I'll see if I can track it down.

And yeah, if she'd been going around for years saying publicly that she wanted to be left alone with him and an axe to chop him to bits, all those people who're suddenly so keen on honouring the victim's wishes (for once) would never have dreamt of honouring her wishes.

[danceswithwords.livejournal.com]

One of the more interesting "why now?" theories I've heard is that Polanski's lawyers have been presenting a multi-level appeal; one of the levels is the judge's alleged misconduct in the original trial (for which I gather there are grounds), but another is that the US hasn't made a serious effort to capture him recently, and therefore isn't really interested in pursuing the case.

So aside from the reasons raincitygirl outlined--which I think are enough--it's possible that the LA DA's office decided to act or lose standing.

[cereta.livejournal.com]

Did the judge die recently? I don't remember where I heard that.

[danceswithwords.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure when he died, but he's definitely dead now, and must have died within the last 5 or so years. One of the reasons that appalling "documentary" was able to present the original trial in the way it did was because the judge was dead.

[jackiekjono.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard it had more to do with him going to a country that has an extradition agreement with us at a time when we actually knew he was going to be there.

He has gone back and forth before but, it wasn't well known.

[magdalene1.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank Christ! Kate Harding also said it very well.

The thing that fills me with rage right now is that the media keeps reporting it as "had sex with" instead of rape. RAPEY RAPEY RAPE. When your victim is terrified of you, keeps saying no, asks you to drive her home, begs you to let her alone, it doesn't matter if she's quiet during the actual sticking your dick in her part (or maybe just whimpering in pain and terror), she did not consent. She maybe stopped fighting you because if you ignored all her verbal requests, who knows what the fuck else you are going to do, because you are clearly a person who will not respect her boundaries. And when people bring up her stage mother, it also enrages me - like it's the kid's fault she got left there by a stage mother! Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

All the people defending Polanski - the reason this is hanging over his head all this time and causing him unbearable pain is that he never faced the music fully when he had the chance. There were no minimum sentencing guidelines for child molesters back then. He would have served time and then been out of jail and able to create all his great art, and the victim would have had closure.

Lots of people whose music or films or paintings or books I like are terrible people.

[misachan.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if this isn't a libel issue for the media. He was convicted of "unlawful sexual intercourse," not rape or sexual assault. The news outlets might have to be careful they're not accusing him of things he's not guilty of under the law.

[magdalene1.livejournal.com]

I feel you, it would make me feel better if they said "Charged with raping a minor, he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse but fled before sentencing."

[misachan.livejournal.com]

But that would take so LONG to say! What would become of their snappy graphics and banter?

[rike-tikki-tavi.livejournal.com]

The reporting on this over here in Germany is atrocious. My dad's newspaper (usually pretty good) used the phrases "made her docile with alcohol and drugs" and "seduced her into having sex" in the same fucking sentence. The state-run tv stations are not much better. Hardly anybody in our news organizations seems to have a problem with calling for Polanski's release or reporting at least very sympathetically towards him, even though what he did is just as criminal over here. I've started just staying away from the news right now, because this situation makes me so angry, I wanna vomit on somebodies shoes.

[shayheyred.livejournal.com]

The reality is that even if the 13-year old victim "agreed" or "was seduced" or "it was consensual," it doesn't matter. That's rape, statutory or otherwise.

The one confusing part of all this for me is that originally a plea bargain was in fact worked out with Polanski, but the judge implied he'd negate that arrangement, and there is a certain amount of assurance that the judge was out for personal glory. So it is conceivable the entire matter would have been resolved with minimal repercussions for Polanski, had he not fled, but apparently he was afraid his agreement with the DA was about to be dropped.

So while I agree the man is a rapist, and that he should not have fled, it's impossible to know what would have happened originally, had the original plea bargain gone through. Undoubtedly this would just be a footnote, as are the child molestation (or statutory rape? I forget) proceedings agains Peter of Peter, Paul and Mary which occurred some decades ago.

[jackiekjono.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. He did it. He admitted he did it. He should have to pay for it.


*kicks many of my favorite directors plus Tilda Swinton*