If you would be so kind, drop a comment here and let me know: What kind of things do you wish new folks had a handle on before they arrived in fandom? What do you wish someone had told you when you first got involved? If you could announce one thing to every fannish mailing list in existence, what would it be?
We don't want to preach. We don't want to direct. (Well, actually, I do want to direct, but that's a whole other thing.) All we want to do is lay it out in plain words - "Here's where fandom came from, here's how things generally are in fandom online; here's how we treat one another. You can choose to ignore this - that's your right. But it's easier to be part of a community when you live by the community's generally agreed-upon guidelines. Some of this is common sense. Some of it is common courtesy. You'd think it doesn't need to be said, but - well, fandom's a queer duck, and online life is a queer duck, and you put those two together and sometimes people do things they'd never do if they'd actually sat and thought about it for a minute."
Let me know, guys - and ask your friends.
ETA: There are some great ideas being posted here and I just wanted folks to know that we are reading them all - please don't think if I haven't responded directly that I didn't read / didn't care what you said. I just don't want to pad out the replies with "Thanks!" fifty times.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 08:52 am (UTC)Along with the whole "don't try to piss off people" thing.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:01 am (UTC)Off to comment...
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 08:59 am (UTC)B
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Date: 2003-04-19 09:07 am (UTC)Fandom isn't just the Internet
Date: 2003-04-19 09:03 am (UTC)Re: Fandom isn't just the Internet
Date: 2003-04-19 09:07 am (UTC)Yay! - and can I take a moment to squee at your icon?
From:Re: Yay! - and can I take a moment to squee at your icon?
From:Re: Yay! - and can I take a moment to squee at your icon?
From:Re: Yay! - and can I take a moment to squee at your icon?
From:Re: Yay! - and can I take a moment to squee at your icon?
From:Re: Fandom isn't just the Internet
From:no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:49 am (UTC)This, for example - http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/dreamweaver/encyclomn/encycappend01.html - gives a decent start on acronyms and emoticons
Or this -
http://fanac.org/Fannish_Reference_Works/Fan_terms/index.html? - which is a fan-specific terminology list (although SF/F fandom, not our corner of media fandom exactly)
Similarly, both versions of the Fancyclopedia can be found here: http://fanac.org/Fannish_Reference_Works/Fancyclopedia/index.html
It's true that media fandom is sometimes seen as a lower life form by old-style SF/F fen (as I've discovered by participating in both fannish arenas), but inasmuch as we (i.e., media fen) consider it important that newcomers learn the mores and courtesies of what *we* think fandom is (and should be), I think it's also useful if we have at least some historical perspective of what fandom was (and is) before we recreated it. If we're not willing to do that, we shouldn't be surprised when newcomers to our branch of fandom ignore our norms.
And maybe a message board (or the equivalent) where people could post newbie-type questions to be answered (in a threaded way) without fear of feeling like an idiot. To ensure this, there would have to be provisions for people to post their questions anonymously (although in that case I'd suggest that a decent number of people should have the ability - and passwords - to delete trollish questions so no one person feels as if she has the burden of being the Voice of Fandom).
With a message board there might be more than one answer to any given question (who am I kidding...there could be dozens *g*), but there would at least be the possibility of coming up with some sort of fannish consensus to *some* issues.
-Beth
(no subject)
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From:no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:18 am (UTC)-J
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:29 am (UTC)Try to take as much as you give. If you don't have the resources or the emotional energy, you don't have to be a BNF running a mailing list or hosting an archive on your domain. But we all have an e-m ail address and/or a livejournal account, use that account to send feedback and acknowledgement to other people. Sometimes it seems like we are all shouting into a void because we can't see if anyone is really there. If you have a response to someone, acknowledge it and them by replying to them. Politely. With correct punctuation and spelling..
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:33 am (UTC)Hmm. Can you actually encourage lying one's ass off until one is 18, or do you have to be subtle about it and risk them not getting it?
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 11:16 am (UTC)Can we have something along the lines of: "if fandom is the way you've found the internet, here are some ways to keep yourself safe from the sharks out here" It would be good if the younger teens especially, got some "safety tips", since they don't have the real-life experience to notice when they start being "had".
I think there might be serious legal ramifications if you're going to recommend that teens lie to gain access to adult sites. Just sayin'.
(no subject)
From:Re:
From:Great idea!
Date: 2003-04-19 09:37 am (UTC)An annotated bibliography would be great, too, starting with Henry Jenkins's wonderful Textual Poachers (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415905729/qid=1050770003/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-2818856-1131838?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).
Re: Great idea!
Date: 2003-04-19 03:44 pm (UTC)Go get your copy of Textual Poachers Turn to page 261 - the chapter on filk. Down towards the bottom - "Roddenberry" [Ross, 1988].
That's me. ;)
Re: Great idea!
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2003-04-19 07:58 pm (UTC) - Expandno subject
Date: 2003-04-19 09:46 am (UTC)You can tell the truth to someone in a social situation without being rude. There's a lot of power in that. There's no power in shrugging off common courtesy, even if it does make you feel good for ten seconds.
Know in your heart that (online) fandom is an incestuous society, and who you privately trash today could be your friend tomorrow, and vice versa. So... Don't. Or Do, but know that.
Everyone has a favorite dead pony. Respect that right even if you don't respect the horseflesh.
I wish someone had told me that being involved in fandom was going to be an all-encompassing part of my social life. I can't look at anything without somehow relating it to something that I'm involved in or know about or is related to fandom. Rose-colored glasses? I have fandom-colored glasses.
Subparagraph B: Internet fandom is not the be-all, end-all of fandom. It's not even the majority. If there was ever a place were there is a Silent Majority, it's in fandom, and what we think or say or write is not everything. And slash fandom? It's a fringe of that minority part of fandom. It just *feels* all encompassing. (note: Slash is MUCH MORE out in the open than it was a mere 6 years ago when I became involved in online fandom, but that doesn't mean that it's OUT THERE.)
For (insert deity of choice)'s sake, keep an intact sense of humor. It's necessary in order to live a healthy fannish life.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:00 am (UTC)Obviously, nobody *has* to link to it, and we're sure to get our fair share of "who are you to tell us blah blah!?"
You might be able to side-step this a little if you present it as more of a *descriptive* primer-- ie, these are the general codes of behavior that most fen consider to be important, not just because this behavior is "tacky" or "rude" or whatever, but because these rules have evolved over the years so *people don't get hurt*, individually and collectively as a fandom. Not "You shall not direct-link screencaps because it's rude," but "We don't direct link screencaps because it costs the hoster *actual money* and might cause her site to go down and not be available to *anyone*." Not "You shall not give vids to Joss because it's thoughtless," but "Historically, we don't think it's wise to give vids to Joss because of X, Y and Z who've been ToSed in similar situations, thus causing their vids/archives/zines to not be available to *anyone*." Etc. *shrug* Just a suggestion.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:05 am (UTC)Absolutely. We're going to be very careful not to make anything a command or imperative. If we present ourselves as asshats, no one will care to read it. :)
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:07 am (UTC)Anyways, sorry, getting a little spazzy there, too many kerffuffles lately, I'm on overload. I realize that my old rant about the taking of my stories and archiving them on personal archives without my permission is a little... oh, disjointed and ranty, and somewhat old, but if you want to take some of that, feel free. That's the one I wrote and got input from my fellow bitkahs on after a couple people had stolen some stories -- and then complained that links and recs take up more bandwidth than archiving. I think you could probably do a better job of explaining the bandwidth non-issue, but if you want to take anything, be my guest (that's another part of the rant -- that people are guests in my corn, and don't have the right to just take without asking because I invited them in). I'm too rushed right now to figure out how to do the link in text thing, but it's at www.drizzle.com/~gwyneth/morestuff/cornguests.html, I think. If not just go to the TMI page, linked from the bottom of the home page, and go over to the Guests in my Corn rant.
Keep up the good work, kiddos.
Always a guy?
Date: 2003-04-19 12:20 pm (UTC)As for the "I'm right" thing, well, it's not attractive when I do it, and even less when a male takes it on himself to tell me I'm wrong.
Dealing with men on-line has taught me to never apologize. They never do.
"we ain't wrong, we ain't sorry and we're probably gonna do it again"
I'll post actual things in a minute.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:22 am (UTC)Also, maybe profiles a la "I am Farscape". With like a paragraph written by different people about who they are in RL and online -- I know when I started I was sure I was the only one over the age of 12 who could possibly be into this. (chuckle).
Also, wordy McWord on pen names (from that excellent top10 list someone linked to).
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:33 am (UTC)I think there are few things that apply everywhere in fandom, like it's a really bad idea to make profits with things that infringe on copyright; or to give such materials to actors or copyright holders (though that is already less universal than the first, while true in general, I mean, I've regularly seen comic fans showing their comic artwork, including some that contained copyrighted characters, to professionals and publishers for advice, sometimes, though not in all cases, in the hope of employment, and nobody thought anything was unusual about this, but really in comic fandom the division between "fan" and "professional" isn't as strict as in many other media, and obviously you only show your own artwork, not that of someone else).
Other than that it's mostly basic netiquette stuff that fans need to know, like that you don't post private mails, don't redistribute other people's content etc. and of course that "available for free on the net" does not equal "public domain", but really anybody who uses things with licenses (like for example software) should already know the differences between different types of usage rights you get when you download content.
I think this is a great idea
Date: 2003-04-19 10:48 am (UTC)I'm not a vidder but have on-line friends who are vidders and I've seen some of their stuff and am impressed at the work.
One of the things I think about fanfic and fan-art and vids is that it is our creative way to celebrate the characters and story-lines that have already been created and we then exercise our creativity, our talents in getting inside our favorite characters and creating new storylines either in the gen mode or the slash mode. What this does is helps us, as writers and artists, exercise our talent. Whether we decide to ever "go live" with our talent is each and every fans perogitive - and by going live, I mean writing or creating art or vids that are original in nature and not based on any existing movie or tv show or comic etc.
I work in the media world in my RL; on-line I appreciate the fandoms and I write my own brand of slash. In some cases I know the people who were involved in producing the shows and characters I use but it would be suicide to tell them about the worlds stemming from there on the internet. I've seen a few things go down that are not cool. If that Dutch kid had "published" his Harry Potter look-alike on the internet in a friendly Harry Potter community, he would not now being sued by Rowling. One book that was written as a sequel to a pre-existing book that is in the public domain went without a kerfuffle and became a bestseller for a time. Another in the same vein, went to court because the heirs of the estate disagreed that someone should be allowed to continue the story their ancestor wrote without permission.
In addition, I happen to know from various sources that there are shows that were/are aware of the fanfic and would indulge in reading it. Perhaps even to get ideas for stories of their own, or to laugh at the thought, or whatever. Back when I was in high school, I went to my very first convention - it was Star Trek - and the room where they were selling stuff, and the art room blew me away. Drawings of Spock, Kirk, naked and not naked. were among the things that rose my eyebrow. I was already writing my own Star Trek stories, with my friends in them and we'd get together and have Star Trek parties et al. I know that there are shows/movies that are aware of the fanart, fanfic, and vids and they don't argue with it; there are others than close sites down (LOTR being one, yes?).
Basically, we exist for ourselves and it's important to keep our community to overselves in order to keep it running. Fandom has been around long before the internet, and it would be great if it could continue, but everyone - newbies as well as oldbies - must be aware that we are walking a very thin line between legal and illegal with our love of the characters we celebrate.
Since the internet makes life easier and faster, then, yes, it is important that something like this exists so we can be informative to the newbies so they won't accidentally try and celebrate their raves a little too far....
I doubt I've said anything new but these are my thoughts for what they are worth.
Long live our fandom world.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 10:58 am (UTC)When someone sends you feedback, or even a note about a broken link, it's common courtesy to send even a brief reply. Of course, some authors point out that they can't and won't reply to feedback, which is also courteous, but not as common ...
I also second
Great idea!
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 11:05 am (UTC)Adding my cents
Date: 2003-04-19 11:32 pm (UTC)Sometimes lurking brings you into a new fandom.
I was introduced to fandom by a friend in jr high. It was a couple years before I personally connected to fandom via the internet.
I was introduced to spoilers and posting boards by my first fandom.
(There was a sci-fi club at my high school, learned a lot through that too.)
What was my first fandom?
Star Trek
I learned about conventions, fan fiction, value of fandom related items, and lots of other cool things. Each year the club would have its own little convention. We served "Romulan Ale" (I think it was club soda with blue food coloring), "Gachke" (sorry about the spelling), and other fun things.
My interest in Star Trek has wained (and I basicly just prefer ST:TNG) and I'm all about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" It is my #1 obsession. It is my life.
Novels, comics, magazines, posters, magnets, calendars, videos, DVDs, etc. I have floppy discs, zip discs, and CDs full of things I've downloaded or saved from the web. More than half of the files on my hard drive are related to BTVS.
People think I'm nuts.
But I know I'm not.
It's all just part of fandom.
:P
BTVS Chick
Lilly Rosenburg
btvschick2@gurlmail.com
=====
"Peace, Love, and Mickey Mouse"
ANYA
"He drove a really hard bargain, but I finally got him to throw in a
limited edition Backstreet Boys lunch box for....
A friend." (Bargaining pt.1)
Meta, meta, everywhere
Date: 2003-04-19 11:13 am (UTC)You might also want to explain the concept of trolls, and point out that some people enjoy a good argument, provided it doesn't descend into "you're such a stupid idiot!" back and forth comments.
The one thing I wish I'd known before I started out in fandom is that the best way to stay sane throughout the various madnesses that crop is to remain true to your own personal beliefs and points of view. If you disagree with the popularly accepted arguments, then by all means say so - politely. If you don't like a popular author's writing, then don't profess to like their work to score a few brownie points among the "cool" crowd. In my experience, there's nothing that'll fry your brain more than jumping on bandwagons and losing sight of yourself, and the reasons why you became involved with fandom in the first place.
I'd like to see a treatise on the sacredness of images.
Date: 2003-04-19 11:26 am (UTC)It gets wierder when there's a lot of photography, screencaps and video footage from the source show. Because it's already sort of second- or third-hand, and people start to get confused about what constitutes ownage. Personally I stay away from anything actually manipped by anyone, and only use screencaps and other images if I do a bunch of manipping of my own on them first, such as for fic covers. There are exceptions; I really wanted to make an icon of Troya Mayan's Collar!Clark, so I asked, and she was cool with it, and . . . well, yeah. Look up and to the left.
As for bandwidth stealing? Unspeakably rude. Cannot believe it's even a topic of discussion.
So. A section on image etiquette would be useful.
Re: I'd like to see a treatise on the sacredness of images.
Date: 2003-04-19 12:51 pm (UTC)I can very easily believe it. So many people out there use the internet without understanding how it works. Kids and students especially, who probably aren't paying for their own access or sites.
Perhaps a primer on Bandwidth: Your Friend and Mine would help with this?
Re: I'd like to see a treatise on the sacredness of images.
From:Re: I'd like to see a treatise on the sacredness of images.
From:no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 11:45 am (UTC)Also, think carefully about your pseud. Be sure you like it.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 11:54 am (UTC)Best of luck with this project.
*
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 11:56 am (UTC)(1) What you do in fandom "counts," even if you've picked an especially clever pseudonym, even if you never meet anyone face-to-face, and even if you think all your fandom acquaintances are on the opposite side of the world. It will turn out that one of them's sister's third-grade teacher is best friends with your mother, or something. Do unto others in fandom as you would have them do unto you, and don't say or do anything in fandom which you would be embarrassed to have reported to the "real life" person who matters to you most. (If your participation in fandom itself embarrasses you, you should probably rethink either your involvement in fandom or your standards of "embarrassment.")
(2) You _will_ experience culture shock. Try to resist the urge to explain to your fandom "hosts" why they've been doing things wrong all along, or why their customs are silly and outmoded and you can do better, or why they are not making you feel welcome enough. Also, avoid stereotyping about fandoms, in particular or in general. These are natural phrases to pass through, but they are every bit as lovable as a toddler's temper tantrums, and fandom is not your mother.
(3) You will also need to take time to learn your way around this new culture. Whenever you join a new list, message board, or LJ community, lurk for a little while until you've got a handle on what and how to contribute. For the same reasons, you should probably wait at least six months -- preferably a year or two -- before taking on major fannish projects (new archives, mailing lists, message boards, etc.), so that you can be certain you're not reinventing the wheel.
(4) Be polite before, during, and after you acculturate into fandom. (If you think politeness is for wimps, please go away and don't come back until you grow up.) Start off being polite as you've been brought up to understand "polite." When you learn new ways of being polite according to your "host"'s culture -- e.g., sending feedback, thanking others for feedback, producing fanart or covers, anonymously paying for a fellow fan's LJ time -- adopt those practices to whatever extent you're comfortable doing so. Remember that "polite" behavior will vary according to context within fandom, just as your behavior would be different when attending a keg party vs. attending a funeral.
(5) As point #1 above should suggest, fandom is not an isolated culture; it has ties to all sorts of other cultures. No matter how hard you fight it, you cannot keep your fandom involvement entirely separate from your other hobbies and ideas; in fact, you will probably learn many things in fandom which will apply more widely to your life experience. It's easier not to fight it. Have fun!
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 11:58 am (UTC)*cough* except, um. not snarky. which is why I'M not writing it. *g*
A couple of things to add to the list under "dealing with online stress"
Date: 2003-04-19 01:16 pm (UTC)Delete keys and back buttons are good and useful things. So are email filters and kill files. Public announcements of their use seldom are.
Take a break from the computer
Your body will thank you, if not now then in a couple of years from now. So will the pile of dishes crawling around near the sink and the basket of dirty laundry that tries to eat you as go by. For that matter, so will any roommates, friends and family who are concerned that the computer, dishes or laundry have, in fact managed to consume you whole.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-19 01:25 pm (UTC)Remember too, a sizeable group in that majority think deporting or executing all gay folk would be a splendid idea, and they'd be happy to help any sympathizers and co-travelers like you aboard the leaky boat/in
front of the firing squad.
Get a feel for the fandom.
Don't be bullied into writing in the same style as everyone else in the fandom, especially if it's not your voice. It won't look right to you. And homogenization doesn't actually help the fandom grow.
The reader/viewer is as valuable as the writer. Never put yourself down as "just" a reader. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have an audience.
Creativity and fannish activity are not limited to art and writing.