It's past time to cut through this fucking buillshit.

[tzikeh]

I have stayed out of the OTW insanity since it began. I didn't even know how to begin to talk about it, and I didn't want to wade in while things were shaking out, and I didn't want to read things that were going to make me angry, because I knew it would just cause me impotent rage, since there was nothing I would be able to do.



I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE/DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE OTW IF THEIR PHILOSOPHIES ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT (bolded now for those who fail at reading comprehension and think I'm defending OTW, instead of what I'm actually doing, which is bitching about people who hide their identities so that they can say nasty things about OTW), but I am so done with people who are against the OTW with absolutely no facts to back up their opposition. They are the Teabagging Party when it comes to OTW: frothing at the mouth with blind hatred, but they have absolutely no fucking facts and they just believe whatever their mental, seething leaders say without bothering with critical thought, or fact-finding of their own.

In case anyone reading this thinks that I'm somehow part of the OTW "machine," let me be crystal clear. I have no part in OTW. I'm not on the board, I'm not a beta-tester, I'm not a coder, I'm not part of the PR department, I'm not anything at all when it comes to the project. But I am DONE with this fucking insane bullshit Teabagger-mentality ignorance that has spread through some sections of fandom that are just spoiling for a fight with the OTW, because they've heard from someone who knows someone who said something they didn't like.

I have fucking HAD IT.

Whiny, shitty fucks who bitch about the OTW, but create sock-puppet accounts to do it so no one who knows them will know it was *them*, can shove it up their own asses. Cowards. Bullies. Those of you who have a beef with the OTW and have created sock-puppet accounts just to write about it? Show your faces, you craven pieces of shit. How dare you hide so that nobody who knows you finds out what you think. Afraid of conflict with people you know? Coward. You want to dish it out while not having to own it. Put up or shut up.

Comments

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[ithiliana.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a new person on T's list, as an academic, and as someone involved with the journal: honestly, the Organization for Transformative Works is not solely for academics (that has been one of Laura Hale's complaints) though there are academics involved.

Tranformative Works and Culture, the journal, is ONE small project housed under OTW's umbrella. The Archive and Fanlore are other two projects, both much more of interest to fandom in general (which does include academics--we were fans before we were academics).

I am an aca-fan (meaning I do scholarship on fandom), but there are many many academics who are just fans, not doing the scholarship, and it's rather depressing to have so much ire focused on us.

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[ginamak.livejournal.com]

I do understand--I just don't think deliberately antagonizing one's detractors is the way to lessen that ire. It's only going to reinforce their negative opinions.

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if this is about my post, or ithiliana's response, or both - but I do want to make clear (I had hoped the post did) -- I don't have a problem with the detractors, I have a problem with the detractors who only give their opinions via anonymous screamy rants, so that they can vent their spleen without having to own their words.

I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have made this about OTW in particular, but about choosing to post anonymously just so that you can be nasty and no one will ever know it was you.

(Er, not *you*, of course. *g*)

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[ginamak.livejournal.com]

My original comment was made in a general sense. When you (in the general sense) respond to an anonymous screamy comment with your own screamy response, when you resort to namecalling, the only thing you accomplish is giving the other side--whoever that may be, whatever the issue may be--something concrete to point to and say, "See? I stated my opinion and they went nuts." Whatever point you may have, whatever moral authority you may have, it is lost the moment you resort to ad hominems.

If someone makes an anonymous screamy comment, the best thing to do is ignore it and not give them the attention they are craving, rather than take the bait.

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

the best thing to do is ignore it and not give them the attention they are craving, rather than take the bait.

Alas, I do not always do the best thing. Argh.

But I'm more angry about the identity-hiding and the lack of factual basis behind the screaming than the screaming itself. People who go anonymous when they want to voice an opinion that their friends might not like, or even if they just want to pick a fight, make me nuts. If someone wants to scream and yell and rant and rave, but doesn't want friends who are of the opposite opinion to know that that's how they feel, they could rant under f-lock filters, or they could say what they want to say calmly in public and *then* rant under f-lock filters, but ranting in public without a face is just cowardly and immature, regardless of which side of any given argument the anon is on.

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[ginamak.livejournal.com]

Well, the thing is, you just stated above that you have privacy reasons that keep you from divulging your real identity on the internet. I'm not saying this person wasn't sockpuppeting, but (and again, in a general sense) people on the internet do have many varied (and often valid) reasons for not revealing who they are. To assign a motive to someone who has done so when you don't have any context for who they are and why they might feel the need to keep their identity a secret takes the focus off the topic being discussed.

Again, this person may very well have been a sockpuppet--but you don't know that for sure. You assumed things about them and made accusations--accusations that may very well have been true, but that's immaterial, in the end.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the original post you linked to, the topic being discussed was the project and its merits. You made it about the commenter, in part because you disagreed with him or her, and when you did that, you lost the argument.

Re: Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying this person wasn't sockpuppeting, but (and again, in a general sense) people on the internet do have many varied (and often valid) reasons for not revealing who they are.

Hm - I think maybe we're coming from two slightly different angles at this. I don't mean giving a real-life name; I mean not using their own livejournal name so that the people they generally interact with on livejournal won't know it's them. I would never ask someone I encounter online to give me their real name or any information about their life outside of internet interaction, except in specific situations (we have known each other online for years; we live in the same city and want to meet; I've offered to send something via post and they are willing to email me their address; etc.).

As for the sock-puppet, the account was created 18 days ago, there are no posts and no friends listed, and seems to exist solely for the purpose of tearing down the AO3 and the OTW. I'm going with Occam's Razor (or Ockham's Razor, depending on which school you subscribe to *g*) on this one.

I understand what you're saying about where I went south. The fault was mine in terms of phraseology: I should have pointed out all of the factual errors without saying "you're mental" and the rest of it. Not my finest hour.