It's past time to cut through this fucking buillshit.

[tzikeh]

I have stayed out of the OTW insanity since it began. I didn't even know how to begin to talk about it, and I didn't want to wade in while things were shaking out, and I didn't want to read things that were going to make me angry, because I knew it would just cause me impotent rage, since there was nothing I would be able to do.



I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE/DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE OTW IF THEIR PHILOSOPHIES ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT (bolded now for those who fail at reading comprehension and think I'm defending OTW, instead of what I'm actually doing, which is bitching about people who hide their identities so that they can say nasty things about OTW), but I am so done with people who are against the OTW with absolutely no facts to back up their opposition. They are the Teabagging Party when it comes to OTW: frothing at the mouth with blind hatred, but they have absolutely no fucking facts and they just believe whatever their mental, seething leaders say without bothering with critical thought, or fact-finding of their own.

In case anyone reading this thinks that I'm somehow part of the OTW "machine," let me be crystal clear. I have no part in OTW. I'm not on the board, I'm not a beta-tester, I'm not a coder, I'm not part of the PR department, I'm not anything at all when it comes to the project. But I am DONE with this fucking insane bullshit Teabagger-mentality ignorance that has spread through some sections of fandom that are just spoiling for a fight with the OTW, because they've heard from someone who knows someone who said something they didn't like.

I have fucking HAD IT.

Whiny, shitty fucks who bitch about the OTW, but create sock-puppet accounts to do it so no one who knows them will know it was *them*, can shove it up their own asses. Cowards. Bullies. Those of you who have a beef with the OTW and have created sock-puppet accounts just to write about it? Show your faces, you craven pieces of shit. How dare you hide so that nobody who knows you finds out what you think. Afraid of conflict with people you know? Coward. You want to dish it out while not having to own it. Put up or shut up.

Comments

[lian-li.livejournal.com]

and even OTW members agree that some of the defenders are as crazypants as the attackers - or worse. "

I must admit that I'm genuinely bewildered by your description of 'badgering' and crazypants defenders -- I'm not sure if I'm being wilfully blind, but I honestly cannot recall any crazy OTW rallying troups. (Or it shows how different fannish circles can be -- not everyone on my flist/circle is an OTW supporter, and that's just fine by me.)

[...wait, okay, I just remembered something/someone, but -- that is definitely the exception.]

If the people who are leading it don't structure the message to be delivered in a reasonable and respectful way...

My impression in the couple of OTW wanks that I witnessed (I wasn't around for much of the initial period, I came on board early 2008) was more that people are very ready to interpret the message the way they want to interpret it, no matter how reasonable or disclaimer-laden it may be. Often, there is zero benefit of the doubt before people cry "murder!".

If the people who are leading it don't structure the message to be delivered in a reasonable and respectful way

well, I think we disagree here. I don't think the task of the org is to school or censor members or supporters. The org's task is to improve its official, external communication. Individual fen have a right to individual expression and optinion, and that's that. If people are not able and/or willing to distinguish between official OTW response and completeley non-repesentative, individual opinions... *throws up hands*

I'm not saying OTW communication is stellar (hee. I have my own issues with it, but do think it's been improving dramatically, especially on the AO3 front), but I must admit that yeah, I am exasperated when misinformation is deliberately spread again and again when the actual info is right there for everyone to see and disagree with and ask questions about.(having helped translate most of it, I am pretty familiar with the entire OTW FAQ, so...)

anyway, I'm not purposefully trying to be contrary here -- I do want to thank you for your candidness, I appreciate it!

[slashpine.livejournal.com]

(having helped translate most of it, I am pretty familiar with the entire OTW FAQ, so...)

Yes, having to actually read *all* of something, *carefully* -- and then recognize the potentially multiple interpretations like you must in translating it -- is something fans, alas, sometimes surprisingly fail to do! I agree so totally that 99% of wank erupts from hasty reading and misinterpretation, or over-interpretation, or just plain failure to pay much attention at all. LOL. Maybe the fact that most fans, by definition, are people who have a passion for digging into every little detail and making alternative readings leads us to assume that all fans, at all times, will read things in detail? And another definition of wank is "reading comprehension FAIL."

There's so much diversity in OTW of course, and everything they do - as all of fandom - I don't mean to make any ginormous generalizations about "THEY ALL DO THAT ALL THE TIME". Ack. My experience is definitely mine, and my observations are me + my analysis of the first year's LJ postings + comments from a dozen or so friends who drew related conclusions -- and we have our disagreements too on intention, interpretation, and the like.

Which is why I'm not putting up any big posts on OTW in my journals, pro or anti. It's just my thoughts "in progress" at this point. A lot can change! "Some of my best friends are in OTW" lol ... and I will volunteer as soon as I see something that interests me, and academia and RL stop drowning me in "Do This First" a;sdfkjasd;kfjask;!

Cheers, and thanks for all the interesting and friendly comments! I will feel all warm and huggy now when I see news on the translation team - knowing they have such a wonderfully kind and hard working person heading it up!

[the-shoshanna.livejournal.com]

My experience is definitely mine, and my observations are me + my analysis of the first year's LJ postings + comments from a dozen or so friends who drew related conclusions

It's worth remembering that that first year was before the org's own infrastructure was set up. otw_news was being used very differently then than it is now; I don't think that conclusions based on the first year's communication patterns will necessarily still hold true. People may still maintain the impressions they formed then, of course, but that's a different matter. FWIW.

[slashpine.livejournal.com]

Well actually, I may be misspeaking on the time period in question. The "year" I reference is, IIRC, from spring of 2007 through late summer/early fall of 2008. It's all the posts (newsletters, announcements, recruiting, "love stories"/what OTW means to me, first wave of annual reports, etc. along with the comments on them) from the LJ comm... that one that was all yellow. (IIRC) *gets very fuzzy on time* *and colors*

I'm a constant victim of "fandom time" syndrome... The sense of time where you remember each con vividly, and exactly when favorite actor X quit your favorite show and the first episode without zir (*waah!*), and the release of movie X and the friends you saw it with, and everything you said about it afterwards and the very first drabble you wrote in that storyverse ... But you can't remember whether that banning wank was in 2005 or 07 or was it even 2008? And when your *new* Fandom OMGILU group split away from the *old* parent WTFBBQ list? (Or even when it was ezzackly that you stopped being mainly active on the lists and moved to LJ? Woah. We made that crossing on the Ark with Noah, wazznit?)

I say thank goodness it's the dates and details of the wanky shit I never remember well, even though every first-time fandom love affair I've ever had remains brightly burnished in my mind. Or at least, lovingly backlit by the golden glow of nostalgia. *g*

As to OTW and communic's -- I should hope and expect it has changed! LOL. That was part of my thinking, actually, when I set aside the data from my analysis of that first year - I could compare against a later period to see what the shape and style of changes were. (See, I still want to *make* it come out really positive! B/c hay: it's *my* women's safe-space, fandom; my only genderqueer communitarian home in the galaxy. I want it to always be stellar and awesome, or at least heading there!)

Funny again, though (in the OMG way, not the ha-ha one) how many in fandom only and always judge other fans, comms, etc. by "OMG WHAT SHE DID 7 YEARS AGO HOW CAN YOU EVER TRUST HER IN ANY WAY AGAIN?!?!?!?" Fans can be an oddly unforgiving lot! I've never quite figured out *where* that trait comes from. Although I suspect it's got something to do with the many younger/newer fans who haven't been around long enough to make half the mistakes that can be made, and contemplate nearly all the others.

Wank and fandom, ugh. That pairing is my least favorite, yet most often seen! SOMEBODY TELL ME WHYYYYY

*hugs you*

[the-shoshanna.livejournal.com]

I may be misspeaking on the time period in question. The "year" I reference is, IIRC, from spring of 2007 through late summer/early fall of 2008.

Yes, that's exactly the first year of the LJ; its first post went up on May 20, 2007.

[slashpine.livejournal.com]

Ah. Well, wasn't I Miss Johnnie-on-the-spot!

Pity all my work doesn't nail the opportunities when they arise. *listens mournfully to the sound of deadlines whizzing by*

[lian-li.livejournal.com]

awww, thank you, your kind and generous words make me feel all warm and glowy inside :#)
I hope we'll meet again, in discussion or in the org :D