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tzikehI have stayed out of the OTW insanity since it began. I didn't even know how to begin to talk about it, and I didn't want to wade in while things were shaking out, and I didn't want to read things that were going to make me angry, because I knew it would just cause me impotent rage, since there was nothing I would be able to do.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE/DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE OTW IF THEIR PHILOSOPHIES ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT (bolded now for those who fail at reading comprehension and think I'm defending OTW, instead of what I'm actually doing, which is bitching about people who hide their identities so that they can say nasty things about OTW), but I am so done with people who are against the OTW with absolutely no facts to back up their opposition. They are the Teabagging Party when it comes to OTW: frothing at the mouth with blind hatred, but they have absolutely no fucking facts and they just believe whatever their mental, seething leaders say without bothering with critical thought, or fact-finding of their own.
In case anyone reading this thinks that I'm somehow part of the OTW "machine," let me be crystal clear. I have no part in OTW. I'm not on the board, I'm not a beta-tester, I'm not a coder, I'm not part of the PR department, I'm not anything at all when it comes to the project. But I am DONE with this fucking insane bullshit Teabagger-mentality ignorance that has spread through some sections of fandom that are just spoiling for a fight with the OTW, because they've heard from someone who knows someone who said something they didn't like.
I have fucking HAD IT.
Whiny, shitty fucks who bitch about the OTW, but create sock-puppet accounts to do it so no one who knows them will know it was *them*, can shove it up their own asses. Cowards. Bullies. Those of you who have a beef with the OTW and have created sock-puppet accounts just to write about it? Show your faces, you craven pieces of shit. How dare you hide so that nobody who knows you finds out what you think. Afraid of conflict with people you know? Coward. You want to dish it out while not having to own it. Put up or shut up.
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Date: 2010-01-04 06:36 am (UTC)To which there is a certain amount of justice, but it's a failing most volunteer agencies are prone to ("Hah, your volunteer agency is staffed mainly by middle-class people whose relative privilege gives them time and money to spare!") and I have hopes that their awareness of this issue will make a difference.
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Date: 2010-01-04 11:52 am (UTC)I was an eager OTW supporter at the very start, during FanLib and Strikethrough. But after being trashed by several of my flist for not being eager and OMG OTW IS THE ULTIMATE AWESOME *enough* -- as in, not being similarly normed around their English-speaking, LJ-originating/homed, fic-/slash-writing mostly white, mostly middle-class, mostly heternomormative, time-and-income-privileged and gee, does it seem obvious yet? highly self-centered way ... yeah, I backed WAY away from that whole group.
I get enough of that white middle-class heteronormative hegemony in RL, thankyouverymuch!
Again, not that I object at all to OTW's principles. Just the unfortunate way some of their supporters have turned it into teh new Shiny Fandom Luv Object that they then insist evarywon must luv like I do!!1! I object to being beaten over the head with anyone's personal fannish object of idolatry. Adam Lambert, OTW, hmm... no difference in effect. Substance good, rabid fangrls rabidly screaming for rabid worship... not so good.
And, I hope there's no offense taken at my words or wording! It is way late in the p.m. here, I'm not a perfect writer at the best of times, and I should probably not be responding to wank, given the touchiness of this one. But I do like your comment. Just the fact that OTW's staffed mainly by hyper-competent, over-achieving volunteers may be half the problem...
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Date: 2010-01-04 12:49 pm (UTC)Heeee, I just grinned very widely at that -- I mean, yes, you are right, it is intimidating, but the thing that keeps me sticking with the org from a people perspective is that no-one ever makes me feel as if I'm underachieving [EVEN WHEN I TOTALLY AM OKAY]
It's like, it's a volunteer org, *any* contribution is valuable -- not everyone is rich in energy/time/competence! And I'm really kind of sad that your particular circle did not seem to respect that -- I don't think one needs 100% buy-in or enthusiasm or belong to a particular tradition to be "allowed" contribute, y'know? That's pretty much the most noxious assumption for a volunteer org ever :(
(soooo you could try again, in secret? :DD? *laughs*)
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Date: 2010-01-04 01:01 pm (UTC)I do know some very cool ppl working in OTW, and if I ever have time and/or feel like going back to LJ, I will totally volunteer! Even though I am neither an inner-circle type nor have outrageous techno skilz. I've been a volunteer for things always, from arts organizations to science education to voter registration to an organic farm - I've usually been able to contribute some bit of skill. Right now though I'm mainly volunteering to finish a graduate degree. ;-) But I appreciate your encouragement a ton!!!
(Also, I think your translation team is one of the cooler OTW things, a way of not just being aware of diversity but actually "doing" it! *\o/*)
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Date: 2010-01-04 01:35 pm (UTC)and on a tangent, not directed at you, just spiralled off from your remark re. the "inner circle" impression -- I think for some time now (if not right from the start), the org has been truly so big that people entirely fannishly unrelated to each other are working there. That seems to be something many people don't quite grasp.
I didn't know *anyone* when I first volunteered. Just, by working together, you may get closer/make new friends/ so of course new personal connections are formed! I just despair at this common criticism of "you're all BFFs anyway, it's your tight inner circle project!" because, well, maybe we met *within the org*, duh? And that's something anyone's free to do :D
...as for volunteering -- support in spirit is worth so much, already, especially at times like these :3
(and best of luck with your degree!)
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Date: 2010-01-06 06:47 am (UTC)And that right there is probably a main reason that some OTW folks have gotten so out of control with the preachiness and badgering. I think the org's goals are great, but they seem to have no structure in place that helps their volunteers discuss OTW with others in a reasonable and non-browbeating way.
It's a problem for groups that attract a wide diversity of members, and are focused on their program goals more than organizational (as in member/worker) development. The member who is misinformed or addresses public questions inappropriately can quickly become the most unattractive face of the organization.
The next thing you know, you have posts like some on this thread and pretty much anywhere OTW comes up, where people say "the obnoxiousness of OTW evangelists is the #1 reason I avoid them" and even OTW members agree that some of the defenders are as crazypants as the attackers - or worse.
It's a shame, because I imagine it's a small minority of OTW workers who carry on with this bad behavior that is then taken to represent the entire group. And it gets in the way of good folks joining up, or recognizing the good work of volunteers like you. But that's how organizational communication goes - rather like fandoms, really. If the people who are leading it don't structure the message to be delivered in a reasonable and respectful way, and help the majority learn to do that, the entire org can come to be seen as a pit of trolls and people stop listening to anything the group says.
I still mean to volunteer when I get done with my degree work, because I volunteer for lots of good things, including ones that seem to need help. And also, I still think OTW has good ideas. It's just some aspects of the execution that need work.
Thanks for the comments! :-)
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Date: 2010-01-08 11:26 pm (UTC)I must admit that I'm genuinely bewildered by your description of 'badgering' and crazypants defenders -- I'm not sure if I'm being wilfully blind, but I honestly cannot recall any crazy OTW rallying troups. (Or it shows how different fannish circles can be -- not everyone on my flist/circle is an OTW supporter, and that's just fine by me.)
[...wait, okay, I just remembered something/someone, but -- that is definitely the exception.]
If the people who are leading it don't structure the message to be delivered in a reasonable and respectful way...
My impression in the couple of OTW wanks that I witnessed (I wasn't around for much of the initial period, I came on board early 2008) was more that people are very ready to interpret the message the way they want to interpret it, no matter how reasonable or disclaimer-laden it may be. Often, there is zero benefit of the doubt before people cry "murder!".
If the people who are leading it don't structure the message to be delivered in a reasonable and respectful way
well, I think we disagree here. I don't think the task of the org is to school or censor members or supporters. The org's task is to improve its official, external communication. Individual fen have a right to individual expression and optinion, and that's that. If people are not able and/or willing to distinguish between official OTW response and completeley non-repesentative, individual opinions... *throws up hands*
I'm not saying OTW communication is stellar (hee. I have my own issues with it, but do think it's been improving dramatically, especially on the AO3 front), but I must admit that yeah, I am exasperated when misinformation is deliberately spread again and again when the actual info is right there for everyone to see and disagree with and ask questions about.(having helped translate most of it, I am pretty familiar with the entire OTW FAQ, so...)
anyway, I'm not purposefully trying to be contrary here -- I do want to thank you for your candidness, I appreciate it!
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Date: 2010-01-09 12:00 am (UTC)Yes, having to actually read *all* of something, *carefully* -- and then recognize the potentially multiple interpretations like you must in translating it -- is something fans, alas, sometimes surprisingly fail to do! I agree so totally that 99% of wank erupts from hasty reading and misinterpretation, or over-interpretation, or just plain failure to pay much attention at all. LOL. Maybe the fact that most fans, by definition, are people who have a passion for digging into every little detail and making alternative readings leads us to assume that all fans, at all times, will read things in detail? And another definition of wank is "reading comprehension FAIL."
There's so much diversity in OTW of course, and everything they do - as all of fandom - I don't mean to make any ginormous generalizations about "THEY ALL DO THAT ALL THE TIME". Ack. My experience is definitely mine, and my observations are me + my analysis of the first year's LJ postings + comments from a dozen or so friends who drew related conclusions -- and we have our disagreements too on intention, interpretation, and the like.
Which is why I'm not putting up any big posts on OTW in my journals, pro or anti. It's just my thoughts "in progress" at this point. A lot can change! "Some of my best friends are in OTW" lol ... and I will volunteer as soon as I see something that interests me, and academia and RL stop drowning me in "Do This First" a;sdfkjasd;kfjask;!
Cheers, and thanks for all the interesting and friendly comments! I will feel all warm and huggy now when I see news on the translation team - knowing they have such a wonderfully kind and hard working person heading it up!
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Date: 2010-01-09 01:36 am (UTC)It's worth remembering that that first year was before the org's own infrastructure was set up.
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Date: 2010-01-09 03:22 am (UTC)I'm a constant victim of "fandom time" syndrome... The sense of time where you remember each con vividly, and exactly when favorite actor X quit your favorite show and the first episode without zir (*waah!*), and the release of movie X and the friends you saw it with, and everything you said about it afterwards and the very first drabble you wrote in that storyverse ... But you can't remember whether that banning wank was in 2005 or 07 or was it even 2008? And when your *new* Fandom OMGILU group split away from the *old* parent WTFBBQ list? (Or even when it was ezzackly that you stopped being mainly active on the lists and moved to LJ? Woah. We made that crossing on the Ark with Noah, wazznit?)
I say thank goodness it's the dates and details of the wanky shit I never remember well, even though every first-time fandom love affair I've ever had remains brightly burnished in my mind. Or at least, lovingly backlit by the golden glow of nostalgia. *g*
As to OTW and communic's -- I should hope and expect it has changed! LOL. That was part of my thinking, actually, when I set aside the data from my analysis of that first year - I could compare against a later period to see what the shape and style of changes were. (See, I still want to *make* it come out really positive! B/c hay: it's *my* women's safe-space, fandom; my only genderqueer communitarian home in the galaxy. I want it to always be stellar and awesome, or at least heading there!)
Funny again, though (in the OMG way, not the ha-ha one) how many in fandom only and always judge other fans, comms, etc. by "OMG WHAT SHE DID 7 YEARS AGO HOW CAN YOU EVER TRUST HER IN ANY WAY AGAIN?!?!?!?" Fans can be an oddly unforgiving lot! I've never quite figured out *where* that trait comes from. Although I suspect it's got something to do with the many younger/newer fans who haven't been around long enough to make half the mistakes that can be made, and contemplate nearly all the others.
Wank and fandom, ugh. That pairing is my least favorite, yet most often seen! SOMEBODY TELL ME WHYYYYY
*hugs you*
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Date: 2010-01-09 03:44 am (UTC)Yes, that's exactly the first year of the LJ; its first post went up on May 20, 2007.
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Date: 2010-01-09 04:30 am (UTC)Pity all my work doesn't nail the opportunities when they arise. *listens mournfully to the sound of deadlines whizzing by*
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Date: 2010-01-09 11:15 pm (UTC)I hope we'll meet again, in discussion or in the org :D
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Date: 2010-01-04 02:48 pm (UTC)if I ever have time and/or feel like going back to LJ, I will totally volunteer!
Maybe you just meant "if I ever have time even to go back to LJ, let alone to take on a new commitment," in which case, I totally understand! I had recurrent bouts of grad school the way other people have recurrent bouts of malaria (though I did finally beat it, with only an MA-shaped scar). But in case you meant it literally, I want to make sure that you -- and anyone else reading this -- know that being on LiveJournal is in no way related to being involved with the OTW in any form, whether volunteering for the org or just using the AO3, Fanlore, or another of its projects. (Well, somebody on the Communications Committee needs to be able to post to the LJ mirror of the news blog. But leaving aside specialized responsibilities like that, LJ and OTW are completely disjunct.) I've seen this "OTW is LJ-based" canard in too many places, and while it had some validity back before the infrastructure of the transformativeworks.org website was built, that was -- a long time ago. None of the OTW's work is done on LJ.
Good luck with your degree program! I hope it leaves you enough time to sleep, let alone read LJ, let alone pitch in with the OTW.
(Disclosure: I'm on the OTW's Development and Membership Committee, but am speaking for myself.)
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Date: 2010-01-06 08:06 am (UTC)I know that OTW stopped being LJ-based as soon as it got its website set up. I was one of the OMG YES LET'S enthusiasts back at the start during FanLib and then Strikethrough. Work kept me from joining up as a volunteer when the first calls went out.
But I've been mainly on IJ since the early migration, and there is definitely a tendency that those who post about OTW have never done so "from" IJ, but from LJ at first, and now via the mirror. And those who post anything about OTW in my larger fandom (the smaller ones don't have OTW presence at all) are LJ-based fans, who refused to leave it regardless of 6A's censorship and the rest, because of their fanbase there. So the upshot, accidental though it may be, is that from the perspective of many IJ'ers, the OTW promoters are also LJ promoters, who want any discussion of either to come over to LJ. At the same time, they make clear that IJ will get only the tiniest mirrored bit of news, the formal announcements that come out from who-knows-where and to which one can only reply by going elsewhere as well.
(Thus, if OTW ever cared to dilute - ideally to sever - this false association by some of OTW with LJ, one way to do it on IJ would be to have someone who "lives" on IJ be talking there about their OTW activity, with nary a mention of LJ. Much like having your congressional representative active and visible in your community: you still know that s/he goes to DC to do whatever-they-do-there, but you now have a strong memory imprint of them there in your town that "swamps out" any competing impression of them-living-in-Washington.)
The medium is the message. Strange but true. If 99% of the OTW ppl one knows are talking it up from LJ, and only 1% of the ppl one knows who are talking about OTW are doing so on IJ, the association of OTW-LJ will be the one made, because it is the likeliest one that *can* be made.
There's a further association that is just as contingent, but real. This occurred for both reasons of style, and sheer coincidence in time. The perceived "high-handedness" of (what I believe to be a very small, but alas vocal minority of) OTW evangelizers, its opaqueness, low rate of public dialogue, and organizational form bear a passing resemblance to those of LJ/6A. As it happens, OTW arose and began issuing public "news" announcements at the same time as 6A was entering into its various permutations of PR announcements.
(Of course, the two things are related, only inversely, OTW being a reaction against FanLib - which was discussed mostly on LJ - and 6A's strikethrough, etc.)
It's ironic that an org which seeks to avoid the ownership attitude of 6A uses the same SNS and similar forms of PR - but again, the medium shapes the message. To fans not alert to either the history or the structure of NGO's, OTW and 6A look somewhat similar with their hierarchy and procedures, formal statements and communications, non-transparent governance and overarching goals. One apparent bureaucracy resembles another.
Here it's not medium=message that expresses the synecdoche in play, that is the association made by the viewer/reader, but "form = function." Sharing the form "bureaucracy/organization" with its often obscure formal titles, its press releases suddenly appearing, its various "drives" and periodic announcements of big, often headscratchingly dense goals, is taken to signify shared function, including purpose. There is a conflation in the mind of some members of the audience of both that being rather alike (since only superficial notice is sometimes given to either one) in general shape, style of speech, etc., the two may likely be linked.
- TBC -
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Date: 2010-01-06 08:08 am (UTC)That both LJ and OTW became active in their public communications around the same years is only remotely linked, but can reinforce the false impression that they're related: correlation /=/ causation, but it's an easy mistake to make if one is new to online LJ/IJ/DW fandom, or doesn't know the history, or doesn't know much about org structures. The resemblance is, again, superficial - but there are demographics that b/c of age, politics or nationality have an quick distrust of anything that smacks of monolithic power, wielded by "academic elitists", making consequential decisions and issuing PR.
Interesting: Not only is the medium (internet technology + SNS/journal design) strongly shaping the message here, or rather the audience perception and response to it -- a standard theme in internet studies. The application of the form=function analysis to organizations is likewise done often, in org studies. But doing them both at once - to explain the layers of association between one online org and another... I like it. Think I just found my next comm studies/internet research topic! *big happy smile*
Anyway. I *do* know that OTW/=/LJ in any way, but I can't say "in any way, shape or form" because it turns out, there *are* some shape and form similarities which, now that I reflect on some of the discourse I've collected about OTW and LJ and various meta/wanks, finally explains some people's comments (some firmly over in the "conspiracy-theory" area) that were really not making much sense to me! Oooh, I am totally happy now - this has nothing to do with AO3, Fanlore, OTW, or especially LJ, it is such pure research love :D :D :D :D.
By the way, I'm not sure that some of the majorly evangelical OTW'ers on my LJ flist don't themselves think of the two being associated. I don't, but who knows about them? It wouldn't be the strangest thing an OTW volunteer has said!
OT, this: I had recurrent bouts of grad school the way other people have recurrent bouts of malaria (though I did finally beat it, with only an MA-shaped scar).
Is so beautiful and funny! ♥ your turn of phrase. I worked in a perfectly lovely and respectable and OMG *paying* career for years after my MA and here I foolishly came back to a PhD program, which I often think is going to leave much more than a simple scar. More like Nagini tearing out my throat. And my memories dribbling out, or at least everything so fuzzy all the time... *glares at stupid massive interdisciplinary research* I really have sometimes wondered if I will survive it. Malaria might be better!
Thanks for the comment, and the luck-wish, and all your other shining awesomeness (and the research bunny :D:D) and the great metaphor, which deserves to be used in a fic or 10. *hints* I will hope to see you again someday at Escapade or the like, or in OTW. :-)
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Date: 2010-01-08 05:21 pm (UTC)And also thank you, of course, for the fangirling, which made me wriggle in happy embarrassment! I do hope that the grad-school chains can be broken enough to at least let you get to Escapade again soon!